In Remembrance

30 May

In honor of those who have died protecting our liberties.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

Remember our fallen every day, as we fight to keep the liberty they died protecting.

111 Responses to “In Remembrance”

  1. Car in May 30, 2011 at 8:03 am #

    New poat, old comment from old thread:

    I hope PA starts eating, but I totally understand. 1) hospital food TOTALLY BLOWS.

    Honest to God, they need you to eat and then just put the most horrible stuff in front of you.

    You can only eat it if you’re not sick/weak. that’s the only way you have the strength to endure.

    and wakey wakey.

    I survived yesterday. One more day of family. My bro and his wife didn’t come so that is a total farkin WIN.

    My aunt and uncle are in town, and I love them so much.

  2. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 8:03 am #

    Been up since 4:30 with the Scouts to place the remainder flags up before dawn.

    I hate the school administration.

    And good morning!! Glad to hear yesterday went better than expected, Carin.

  3. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 8:08 am #

    I didn’t fare so well with my BIL here. He arrived Saturday, and brought a bottle of Ketel One vodka for his use.

    He is halfway through MY bottle by now. I had to hide the good stuff.

  4. clintbird May 30, 2011 at 8:14 am #

    Well done, aggie.

  5. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 8:40 am #

    It’s just my poat from H&B and Sithy, CB. But I figured it’s appropriate.

  6. Car in May 30, 2011 at 9:15 am #

    He is halfway through MY bottle by now. I had to hide the good stuff.

    Oh, Good lord.

    At my Sil’s funeral this past week, one thing we DID NOT DO was have a drink in her honor.

  7. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 9:24 am #

    one thing we DID NOT DO was have a drink in her honor.

    Yikes. That bad??

    My BIL drinks to everything. He’s watching The Hurt Locker, and has to drink to it. He was watching Ultraviolet, and was drinking to Milla Jovovich (yes, I know some Peasants would have, too). It’s a bit hard for me to take 😉

  8. clintbird May 30, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    Well, it seems lots of people have drinking problems. One way to help them = keep no booze in your house if they’re coming to visit.

  9. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    Yep, I locked and hid stuff, CB.

  10. clintbird May 30, 2011 at 10:16 am #

    Aggs, I don’t want to go to the gym this morning. Will you go in my place?

  11. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    Will you go in my place?

    A gym? What is that? Do they serve doughnuts there??

  12. clintbird May 30, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    I don’t think so, aggs, but I will check.

  13. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    Today is the day everyone leaves me.

    The boys are outta here by noon, on their way to the ocean till tomorrow evening with Papa and Nana.

    I drop the Mrs. off at SeaTac at 1:30 for her flight to Vegas, back late Thursday.

    Its gonna be waaaaaayyyy to quiet tonight.

  14. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    Its gonna be waaaaaayyyy to quiet tonight.

    I have a feeling you’ll be doing your Tom Cruise/ Risky Business impersonation.

  15. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    Nope. I’ll be catching up on laundry.

    It took all day to clean the bedding yesterday.

  16. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    Yep, here too. I have about ten loads to do today, and severe restructuring of the kids’ closets.

  17. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    The older I get, the more I find I appreciate a good oat opera.

  18. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 12:13 pm #

    Oat opera??

  19. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    Western.

  20. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    I think it is the complete and utter lack of PC bullshit in them.

  21. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 12:18 pm #

    Oh, I see. My bad.

    Now that you mention it, I am getting a hankerin’ for watching Shane. But that has to wait.

  22. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    “Shane! Come Back, Shane!”

    ——————-

    Actually, TCM had an Alan Ladd movie I hadn’t seen yesterday…The Deep Six.

    I kinda enjoyed it.

    Next Saturday’s Installment of The Essentials is Dodsworth, which is worth enduring the comments of that insufferable douchebag, Alec Baldwin, for. A Five-Star film with an out-freaking-standing cast…Walter Huston, Ruth Chatterton, Paul Lukas, and a very young David Niven, with one of the last screen appearances of Mary Astor.

    Watch it. There will be a test on Sunday.

  23. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    Mary Astor…she was a beauty.

    I remember this movie shown when I was very young, and in Spanish. I was too young to understand it, but I think I will watch it again.

    If only to pass the test on Sunday.

  24. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    You’ll understand it now.

    It really touched me the first time I saw it, and NOT in the swim suit area, either. Then you’ll wonder how it got made back then.

  25. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    Making a chocolate cake, ribs, crash potatoes, homemade bread rolls, and chocolate pudding.

    WINNING!!!

  26. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    Having a big-ass glass of water.

  27. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    Oh, and in honor of the Jim Trissel resignation?

    What did the Ohio State football player get on his SAT?

    Drool.

  28. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

  29. Jay in Ames May 30, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    Brisket at 170, won’t be long now!

  30. Jay in Ames May 30, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    What does the N on the Nebraska football helmet stand for?

    Knowledge.

  31. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    That brisket recipe sounded awesome, J’Ames.

  32. Dick May 30, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    My job’s finished. Now for a shower and then I’m off to visit PA.

  33. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    How did it go, Dick?

  34. MCPO Airdale May 30, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    Aggie – Thank you for the lovely Memorial Day post.

  35. Dick May 30, 2011 at 5:25 pm #

    PA Update: Kelly and I both visited.
    Patty Ann’s eating, in good spirits, and just about as ready as she can be for the surgery tomorrow.
    The drugs must be good, cause she thinks today is Saturday.

    I’ll let ya know.

  36. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    Thanks for the update, Dick. Very much appreciated!!

  37. MCPO Airdale May 30, 2011 at 5:54 pm #

    Dick – Thanks for the update. I’m glad PA is eating and her good spirits may have something to do with your company.

    Despite what Aggie says, you’re a good man!

  38. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 6:15 pm #

    Despite what Aggie says, you’re a good man!

    The hell???

    *gives MCPO a juicebox and fresh Depends*

  39. GuyS May 30, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    Very good Memorial Day observance Aggie, thanks for sharing. One question to the members at large (and anyone else who happens to stumble in here).

    Why do folks (and I am not referring to anyone here) tend to confuse Memorial Day, and its specific intent/observance with what should be done on/for Veteran’s Day?

    This day is for honoring those who have given that “last full measure”, and for what and or why they did so. Meaning no disrespect to vets out there (being one myself) but we did our time, and (eventually) returned to civilian life (in whole or in part). Though I appreciate (and still get embarrassed) when someone happens to express their thanks, on this day of all days, (speaking strictly for myself) I feel totally underserving of same…this day is for those who are far better than I could ever hope to be.

    Am I off base here, or a tad too sensitive?

  40. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    No, you aren’t off base. I feel the same, though I can understand how some of the younger folk tend to confuse the holidays. Little one was told to thank a vet today by her teacher. She was confused, but then I told her it was always ok to thank a vet, any time.

    I guess it’s hard for some to separate the two holidays.

  41. TattooedIntellectual May 30, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    Jay honey, if you’re going to tell the joke you have to tell it right. It’s nowledge.

  42. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 6:43 pm #

    TI!!! How have you been???

    *smooch*

  43. MCPO Airdale May 30, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    Tatts!!

  44. TattooedIntellectual May 30, 2011 at 6:58 pm #

    Howdy.

  45. Dick May 30, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    Hey, Tats!
    Hope things have been well with ya.

  46. Dick May 30, 2011 at 7:13 pm #

    I killed the shit outta that’ne!

  47. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 7:14 pm #

    No, you didn’t 😛

  48. MCPO Airdale May 30, 2011 at 7:17 pm #

    I believe I’ll pour myself a whiskey.

  49. Dick May 30, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    Just poured myself a tall one, Chief.

  50. TattooedIntellectual May 30, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    It’s not all dead, it’s just mostly dead.

  51. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 7:20 pm #

    Dick, will you be posting pics of The Wall?

    *takes swig of mojito*

  52. Dick May 30, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    Nope, forgot the camera both times.
    Alzheimer’s.

  53. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 7:27 pm #

    Awwww….pity.

  54. MCPO Airdale May 30, 2011 at 7:42 pm #

    Tatts – Did you get your ink finished? I haven’t seen any photos. . .

  55. Dick May 30, 2011 at 7:43 pm #

    Even though he doesn’t have a prayer, the suspense is driving his dad insane.
    http://www.bootcamp.navy.mil/honor_grads.asp

  56. MCPO Airdale May 30, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    Dick – It ain’t impossible. I did it in 1973.

  57. Dick May 30, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    Chief, he didn’t shoot perfect. That’d be an automatic dis-qualifier in the infantry.
    But a fella can always be hopeful.

  58. Dick May 30, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    I’d give up the left nut (I never use the damn thing) to read the RDC’s thoughts on his ass.

  59. MCPO Airdale May 30, 2011 at 8:08 pm #

    Dick – Ask him when you meet him.

  60. Dick May 30, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    You can bet on that.

  61. TattooedIntellectual May 30, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    MCPO, the leg’s done. Well, as done as it’s going to get until I travel some more. Haven’t started anything new yet though there is an idea floating in the grey matter.

  62. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    Hey, Tats.

    Good To See You, Ma’am.

    ————
    Boys on their way to Port Townshend.

    Wife in the Air to Vegas.

    Chicken done on the grill, a quiet house, and a cold can of diet Canada Dry Ginger Ale.

  63. Dick May 30, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    Tat’s, if ya ever have to get it removed, save it. It’ll make an awesome lamp.

  64. TattooedIntellectual May 30, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    BiW, what do you call a monkey when you take his banana away?

    Dick, the standing joke in the family is that when we die the tats are removed and preserved and passed to whoever’s still alive. As for the leg itself, damned straight.

  65. clintbird May 30, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    PattyAnn update from Cathy:

    Just got back from visiting PattyAnn. Guess I missed Dick and Kelly. Would have been nice to see them, but visitors are limited to 2 at a time so it worked out okay anyway.

    Meant to mention before that she is receiving some nice flower arrangements. But her first one was from MJ sent several days ago and it still looks lovely. MJ sent Gerbera Daisies, btw. Since she wants to be Queen, I brought her a crown/tiara. She loves it and put it on immediately and was still wearing it when I left.

    Xbrad, eat your heart out. PattyAnn was enjoying chocolate pudding and had some juiceboxes waiting for her. No Pop Tarts, however. She’s kinda turned naughty in her eating habits… not much for the nutritious stuff today, but maybe that’s just what we can expect from our Queen PattyAnn.

    She’s in good spirits and still has her sense of humor, although she and John could still use a lot of sleep, especially since tomorrow morning things are gonna get rough for both of them.

    John’s sis, Joyce, was able to tell me that the surgeon now estimates the surgery tomorrow will take 10-12 hours. The original surgery late last fall lasted about 6 hours, and now considering everything they must do they have upped the time. The infection she currently still has remains a challenge on her body and current health challenges. Surgery is scheduled for 10:00 a.m. Texas time. No food etc. after midnight tonight. And they will be prepping her tomorrow morning and taking her from the room about 9:00 a.m.

    Today’s Scripture reading and prayer with PattyAnn was Psalm 86, specifically verses 1-7 and 11-12 if anyone is interested. We had a good talk. She so appreciates all the prayers and thoughts from you guys in the blogosphere and hopes you all will continue your support in prayers and encouragement. She knows she is gonna need it.

    I wasn’t quite ready to leave, but a bunch of family members all showed up and I’m not hot on being scolded or kicked out by the medical team, so I said my good-byes. Joyce, John’s sister, will call me tomorrow with any news and I’ll respond to the needs of PattyAnn and her family in the coming days. Most of them now have my card.

  66. Dick May 30, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    My update wasn’t nearly as wordy.

  67. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    BiW, what do you call a monkey when you take his banana away?

    Hungry.

    ———————–
    Thanks for the update, CB.

    Now that I’m finally over this shit that almost killed me Friday (Take that, Bitch, Who’s your Daddy, Now???), I’m prolly safe to write PA a nice letter, and she won’t get the herp from it.

  68. TattooedIntellectual May 30, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    BiW, what do you call a monkey when you take his banana away?

    Hungry.

    Furious George.

  69. Sox May 30, 2011 at 8:53 pm #

    TattooedIntellectual May 30, 2011 at 8:39 pm Edit #

    BiW, what do you call a monkey when you take his banana away?

    Hungry.

    Furious George.

    WiserBud…

  70. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    Thanks for the heads up, Old Man.

    He sounds like a rock.

  71. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    Tats, I’d tell that to the little one if he were here, but I don’t think he’d like it.

  72. TattooedIntellectual May 30, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    Tats, I’d tell that to the little one if he were here, but I don’t think he’d like it.

    It’d just help cement your reputation as the meanie.

  73. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    Howdy, Sox!!!

    *gives Sox a cuddle*

    Thanks for the update, CB. My flowers won’t get there until tomorrow, so I’m glad she has plenty to cheer her up.

    Furious George

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

  74. Dick May 30, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    BiW, what do you call a monkey when you take his banana away?

    WiserBud… Punk Ass bitch that needs a quality asskicking

    FIFY

  75. TattooedIntellectual May 30, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    On that note, I’m out.

  76. Dick May 30, 2011 at 9:11 pm #

    See ya!

  77. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 9:14 pm #

    Have a great evening, TI 🙂

  78. MCPO Airdale May 30, 2011 at 9:21 pm #

    Later, Tatts! Good to see ya on the innerwebtubes!

  79. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 9:26 pm #

    Is there enough tequila to kill pain?

  80. beasn May 30, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    Is there enough tequila to kill pain?

    Oh yes…if taken up your rear. Would kill a bit more than pain.

  81. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 9:40 pm #

    BEASN!!!

    Loved the grad pics 😀

  82. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 9:43 pm #

    It’d just help cement your reputation as the meanie.

    Number Two would never believe it.

    We’re like Peas and Carrots. We were driving Momma nuts this morning as she was packing.

    She just texted…on the ground in Vegas and waiting for her luggage.

  83. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 9:45 pm #

    Oh, and even though no one cares, I had the best gyro I’ve had in years for lunch today.

    They curried the meat, and the dill sauce was more than a little bit of all that.

  84. beasn May 30, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    Thanks Aggie! We’re very proud of her and hope that she can build on her accomplishment and make something of it, in the end.

  85. Jay in Ames May 30, 2011 at 9:50 pm #

    I am freezing part of this brisket for Patty Ann to enjoy after her surgery, because it is the most delicious thing I have ever made on the smoker. I can think of nothing better to celebrate, than to have smoked brisket.

    Yes, I have made prime rib also, brisket kicks it’s butt all over the place.

    Good luck tomorrow, PA!

  86. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 9:51 pm #

    Do you use Val-U-Rite for that enema, Beasn, or do you have to spring for the good stuff?

    *mentally calculates cost of Stoli enema*

  87. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    I can think of nothing better to celebrate, than to have smoked brisket.

    You haven’t had my cedar plank salmon. Mere mortals die writhing in exquisite extasy after a serving.

  88. Jay in Ames May 30, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    That sounds good, BiW. But this was my first try at a brisket, and it turned out SO well that I’m shocked.

  89. beasn May 30, 2011 at 9:56 pm #

    BiW, I remember some story of a guy, who had his wife give him an adult beverage up his tooter, who woke up dead. Apparently, it hits the system faster and harder, so to speak and poisoned the shit out of him. I think they tried to charge her with manslaughter.

  90. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

    Sounds like you had a wonderful time today, J’Ames.

    Beasn, does she have plans?

    And I care, BisW…I care….

  91. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 10:00 pm #

    Beasn, I used to drink with Lithuanians.

    Although they can be quite fussy about their v’da (There’s Stoli, and if you can’t have that, then there’s Absolut, and then there’s everything else.) if you’re drinking “everything else”, then you’re a drunk, which, if they’re being honest, is ok, because they don’t really take the time to actually taste the v’da. These people could outdrink Hostages, and as you know, that’s saying something.

  92. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 10:02 pm #

    I don’t actually feel like I got a weekend, holiday, or otherwise.

    I might be late to work tomorrow. Just Because.

  93. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 10:02 pm #

    Oh, I remember that story, Beasn. Yeah… I think I’ll pass on the tequila enema.

    I used to drink with Lithuanians.

    I used to drink with Poles. The humans, not the things with electric wires.

    Though after a while I was talking to them, too.

  94. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    The only people I met who could give the Lithuanians a run for their money drinking were Newfoundlanders.

    I seriously only have a fragment of a memory of getting back to the dorms that night…riding in the bed of a pickup through the Vanier neighborhood at 3 am.

  95. beasn May 30, 2011 at 10:07 pm #

    Beasnette has no clue what she wants to do. Once she figures it out, she’ll be golden. The figuring it out thing and acting on it, is the key.

  96. Jay in Ames May 30, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    Aggie, I didn’t really do anything today, but it was kinda fun. I like trying new things to cook, and this one just happened to turn out very well.

  97. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere May 30, 2011 at 10:13 pm #

    Jay, so wathchersayin’ is that you’re an idiot savant, right?

    Good to know.

  98. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    Sounds great, J’Ames. I tried a new ribs recipe and it came out very good, too.

    Beasn, that’s what I’m pretty much seeing with my eldest, though she has two more years left.

  99. beasn May 30, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    I went to get some sample paint for our family room today. Going to have to go get more because I don’t think I like it. meh.

  100. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 10:25 pm #

    Beasn, make sure you take a sample of something you like in your living area… throw pillow, a picture, a pic of the tables, whatever you really like in your living area.

    Matching and/ or accenting that will make it easier to pick paint.

  101. Jay in Ames May 30, 2011 at 10:25 pm #

    Jay, so wathchersayin’ is that you’re an idiot savant, right?

    Not quite sure on that, but I can count toothpicks if you drop them on the floor, and Wapner’s on at 4.

    So I got that going for me.

  102. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 10:26 pm #

    I can count toothpicks if you drop them on the floor, and Wapner’s on at 4.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Are we related??

  103. beasn May 30, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    Aggie……..um…we really need new furniture so there isn’t really anything in there that inspires me other than the fact I need light and airy. I’m going neutral.

    Problem is, we have been looking at furniture and just can’t find anything we like. I’m thinking we need to go simple……eclectic….early American….

  104. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 10:29 pm #

    Spam at H&B:

    Thank him so much! This prolongation is motion to consist asinine, annex sort of borrow given the economy of means – what fixing bath delicious time pending discuss source planner truck.

    WINNING!!!

  105. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 10:35 pm #

    Ahhh, I see what you mean, Beasn. I like my light taupe walls, and picked satin, so I could wipe off crap from the kids.

  106. Teresa in Fort Worth, TX May 30, 2011 at 10:37 pm #

    PA Update post has been updated with Dick and Cathy’s info from earlier this evening.

    Prayers going out to PA and her family from this corner of Texas. Thank you to Dick and Cathy for being our representative on the ground!

    Blessed Memorial Day to all –

  107. LC Aggie Sith May 30, 2011 at 11:36 pm #

    Well, guess I should go to bed. Or watch Johnny Dangerously.

    Y’all have a great evening!

  108. Car in May 31, 2011 at 7:00 am #

    Was busy all day, with family –

    one thing we DID NOT DO was have a drink in her honor.

    Yikes. That bad??

    Yes, she was type 1 diabetic who drank herself to death. When I say she was an alcoholic, You still prolly underestimate how much she drank.

    Liver shot. Got drunk and broke most of her bones – all on separate occasions. One hip. Then the other hip (would fall down). A leg. BOTH arms (separate occasions.)

    It was unbelievable.

  109. Car in May 31, 2011 at 7:02 am #

    We had a nice weekend. My aunt and uncle were here, so lots of eating. Many bottles of wine were consumed.

    Got lots of little things done too.

    But I’ve got to get planting today. My veggies aren’t all in and yesterday I drove by a garage sale of perennials. Now, just where the heck am I going to put all of those things?

  110. clintbird May 31, 2011 at 7:36 am #

    Have you thought about plugging them in, Carin? Are they plugged in?

  111. Car in May 31, 2011 at 7:47 am #

    Exactly. I need to plug them in.

    New poat- I beat aggie!!!!

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: